找路的
发表于 2005-3-4 04:14:00
说杨澄甫的太极功夫由自研而得，我总不大相信。网上很多人都说太极拳不能自学。拳经上也有“入门指路须口授，功夫无息法自修”的论述。所以这“自研而得”若是说从没入门开始自研，那等于说杨澄甫绝代高人，自己凭空创造了太极拳。而一个人创造太极拳的说法总有点神话的味道。不如说太极拳由一人（或几人）集前人之大成更令人信服。若是说的入门后才开始自研的，就得承认他老人家还是得了真传的。他的造诣是“功夫无息法自修”的。那也就无所谓“由自研而得”了。哪个太极大师能不走这条路呢？
zptjs
发表于 2005-3-4 11:41:00
<DIV class=quote><B>以下是引用<I>绿茶傻猫</I>在2004-8-26 20:30:37的发言：</B><br /><br /><P>在下虽说知识有限，对于阁下自负之学实在是不能同日而语。</P><br /><P>然在下还是能明是非的，在下所言皆言之以据，晓之以理，非为争而论，而是为识而论。</P><br /><P>若真有理有学之人，其据实，其理显，在下自当谨以受教。若此态度是“无羞无耻”，那么不分青红皂白是非黑白，言而无据，争而无理，不正视问题而一昧热嘲冷讽的态度又是什么？</P><br /><P>可惜阁下并未读阅在下所论即混淆视听，混淆证据与论据的概念。要明白：这里是论坛，不是法庭。</P><br /><P>阁下如有更充分之据驳在下之论，在下自当受教。</P></DIV><br /><P>辩论到极限，是诡辩或者恶意曲解。先生当属于后者。</P>
zptjs
发表于 2005-3-4 11:46:00
大家应该到他的大本营去争论，在这里争论，玷污了真正太极拳的风姿！
绿茶傻猫
发表于 2005-3-5 01:17:00
<DIV class=quote><B>以下是引用<I>zptjs</I>在2005-3-4 11:41:03的发言：</B><br /><br /><br /><P>辩论到极限，是诡辩或者恶意曲解。先生当属于后者。</P></DIV><br /><P><br /><P> 在下何处“诡辩或者恶意曲解”请明示之，不能因为观点不同而这样子做啊！！</P><br /><P> 在下与问天等辩论可是游刃有余，未到极限，而且在下所言皆言之以据，晓之以理，非为争而论，而是为识而论。何错？</P><br /><P> 这里是论坛，在争论未定案之事，大家就所掌握的证据作为支持论点的论据，以逻辑推理得出各自的论点，并在争论中不断充实论据，改变或完善论点，错了吗？</P><br /><P> 请明示。</P><br /><P> </P>
清闲
发表于 2005-3-11 22:06:00
<P>真是胡扯！田兆麟拜杨澄甫为师，杨少候教他，这有什么关系？！再说田派不田派的也无所谓呀，我们这里就说的是田派，这也是我们后人给的称呼，没说杨式的不好，只不过说明和现行的杨式有点区别，但是区别不大，必竟就是杨式嘛。还是神鹰老师谦虚点，说是“杨式田传”，呵呵！<br />还有什么凌空劲，本来就是太极中的一个高级点的劲法，一种名称而已，一般不容易练成功，何必争来争去，何况一些人练一世的太极，连最基本的劲路也不会发呢。嘿嘿！呜。。。</P><img src="{$root}/max-assets/icon-emoticon/Dvbbs/em05.gif" />
清闲
发表于 2005-3-12 23:08:00
<P>练拳能延年益寿是假的，你看有几个练武术的命特别的长？武术就是武术，身体壮点倒是真的。</P>
清闲
发表于 2005-3-14 14:58:00
<P>羡幕！那肯定得真传了。不过大多数的大多数可是命不是很长哦！</P>
云鹤
发表于 2005-3-17 17:25:00
这里不少是练嘴上工夫的！！！你每天练多久的拳？？？
sgrong68
发表于 2006-7-13 11:28:00
<p>现在太极拳还是原来的（民国时）太极拳吗？</p><p>如果这样下去不到五十年会怎样？</p>
湛森
发表于 2006-8-2 13:43:00
<p class="MsoNormal" style="MARGIN: 0cm 0cm 0pt;"><font size="3"><span lang="ZH-CN" style="FONT-FAMILY: SimSun; mso-ascii-font-family: "Times New Roman"; mso-hansi-font-family: "Times New Roman"; mso-fareast-language: ZH-CN;">田兆麟</span><span lang="EN-US" style="mso-fareast-language: ZH-CN; mso-fareast-font-family: SimSun;"><font face="Times New Roman">(1891-1960)</font></span><span lang="ZH-CN" style="FONT-FAMILY: SimSun; mso-ascii-font-family: "Times New Roman"; mso-hansi-font-family: "Times New Roman"; mso-fareast-language: ZH-CN;">，亦名绍轩，是北京消防队员，杨式太极拳之佼佼者，得大中小快架和散手功夫，是较全面之太极传人。初经杨健侯指点，以其勤学苦练且甚有悟性，，功夫大有长进，请求拜师。因其性急好斗，杨健侯不允。</span><span lang="EN-US" style="mso-fareast-language: ZH-CN; mso-fareast-font-family: SimSun;"><font face="Times New Roman">1915</font></span><span lang="ZH-CN" style="FONT-FAMILY: SimSun; mso-ascii-font-family: "Times New Roman"; mso-hansi-font-family: "Times New Roman"; mso-fareast-language: ZH-CN;">年，田兆麟</span><span lang="EN-US" style="mso-fareast-language: ZH-CN; mso-fareast-font-family: SimSun;"><font face="Times New Roman">24</font></span><span lang="ZH-CN" style="FONT-FAMILY: SimSun; mso-ascii-font-family: "Times New Roman"; mso-hansi-font-family: "Times New Roman"; mso-fareast-language: ZH-CN;">岁，被选为救火队领班，</span><span lang="ZH-CN" style="mso-fareast-language: ZH-CN; mso-fareast-font-family: SimSun;"><font face="Times New Roman"> </font></span><span lang="ZH-CN" style="FONT-FAMILY: SimSun; mso-ascii-font-family: "Times New Roman"; mso-hansi-font-family: "Times New Roman"; mso-fareast-language: ZH-CN;">始指定其向杨澄甫拜师，赐名“绍轩”，仍由健侯代子传艺。</span><span lang="EN-US" style="mso-fareast-language: ZH-CN; mso-fareast-font-family: SimSun;"><font face="Times New Roman">1917</font></span><span lang="ZH-CN" style="FONT-FAMILY: SimSun; mso-ascii-font-family: "Times New Roman"; mso-hansi-font-family: "Times New Roman"; mso-fareast-language: ZH-CN;">年，健侯逝世，</span><span lang="ZH-CN" style="mso-fareast-language: ZH-CN; mso-fareast-font-family: SimSun;"><font face="Times New Roman"> </font></span><span lang="ZH-CN" style="FONT-FAMILY: SimSun; mso-ascii-font-family: "Times New Roman"; mso-hansi-font-family: "Times New Roman"; mso-fareast-language: ZH-CN;">田再投杨少侯门下，苦练杨氏家传的快拳及散手，身手柔</span><span lang="ZH-CN" style="mso-fareast-language: ZH-CN; mso-fareast-font-family: SimSun;"><font face="Times New Roman"> </font></span><span lang="ZH-CN" style="FONT-FAMILY: SimSun; mso-ascii-font-family: "Times New Roman"; mso-hansi-font-family: "Times New Roman"; mso-fareast-language: ZH-CN;">绵</span><span lang="ZH-CN" style="mso-fareast-language: ZH-CN; mso-fareast-font-family: SimSun;"><font face="Times New Roman"> </font></span><span lang="ZH-CN" style="FONT-FAMILY: SimSun; mso-ascii-font-family: "Times New Roman"; mso-hansi-font-family: "Times New Roman"; mso-fareast-language: ZH-CN;">而</span><span lang="ZH-CN" style="mso-fareast-language: ZH-CN; mso-fareast-font-family: SimSun;"><font face="Times New Roman"> </font></span><span lang="ZH-CN" style="FONT-FAMILY: SimSun; mso-ascii-font-family: "Times New Roman"; mso-hansi-font-family: "Times New Roman"; mso-fareast-language: ZH-CN;">气势速猛</span><span lang="ZH-CN" style="mso-fareast-language: ZH-CN; mso-fareast-font-family: SimSun;"><font face="Times New Roman"> </font></span><span lang="ZH-CN" style="FONT-FAMILY: SimSun; mso-ascii-font-family: "Times New Roman"; mso-hansi-font-family: "Times New Roman"; mso-fareast-language: ZH-CN;">。田兆麟手法多变而步法灵巧，颇有</span><span lang="ZH-CN" style="mso-fareast-language: ZH-CN; mso-fareast-font-family: SimSun;"><font face="Times New Roman"> </font></span><span lang="ZH-CN" style="FONT-FAMILY: SimSun; mso-ascii-font-family: "Times New Roman"; mso-hansi-font-family: "Times New Roman"; mso-fareast-language: ZH-CN;">杨少侯“千手观音”</span><span lang="ZH-CN" style="mso-fareast-language: ZH-CN; mso-fareast-font-family: SimSun;"><font face="Times New Roman"> </font></span><span lang="ZH-CN" style="FONT-FAMILY: SimSun; mso-ascii-font-family: "Times New Roman"; mso-hansi-font-family: "Times New Roman"; mso-fareast-language: ZH-CN;">之风格。后随杨澄甫南下教拳</span><span lang="EN-US" style="mso-fareast-language: ZH-CN; mso-fareast-font-family: SimSun;"><font face="Times New Roman">.</font></span><span lang="ZH-CN" style="FONT-FAMILY: SimSun; mso-ascii-font-family: "Times New Roman"; mso-hansi-font-family: "Times New Roman"; mso-fareast-language: ZH-CN;">其弟子有叶大密、陈炎林、王成洁等人</span><span lang="EN-US" style="mso-fareast-language: ZH-CN; mso-fareast-font-family: SimSun;"><font face="Times New Roman">,</font></span><span lang="ZH-CN" style="FONT-FAMILY: SimSun; mso-ascii-font-family: "Times New Roman"; mso-hansi-font-family: "Times New Roman"; mso-fareast-language: ZH-CN;">留有田兆麟口述，弟子陈炎林笔录之《太极拳刀剑捍散手合编》传世。</span><span lang="EN-US"><p></p></span></font></p><span lang="EN-US" style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; FONT-FAMILY: "Times New Roman"; mso-fareast-language: ZH-CN; mso-fareast-font-family: SimSun; mso-font-kerning: 1.0pt; mso-ansi-language: EN-US; mso-bidi-language: AR-SA;"><a href="http://www.21wulin.com/files/read.php?ID=1210" target="_blank">www.21wulin.com/files/read.php?ID=1210</a></span>
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